The facsistic agenda of totalitarian homosexualism seems to know no bounds. The counseling professioun has been at war with science for years, and never more so than with their anti-rational enthusiasm over homosexuality. It’s shocking, though, that the Shrink Industry would embrace the same fascistic agenda as homosexuality and move militantly against reason and academic freedom, as they have with the Christian counseling student in the following story. The moral depravity and intellectual filthiness of America’s Counseling Association is incredible. One could be forgiven for thinking they had just walked out of a jungle within the past week.
WorldNetDaily – July 22, 2010
‘Lose Christianity or face expulsion’: Georgia student told to read ‘gay’ lit, attend ‘pride parade,’ change beliefs
By Bob Unruh
A lawsuit against Augusta State University in Georgia alleges school officials essentially gave a graduate student in counseling the choice of giving up her Christian beliefs or being expelled from the graduate program. School officials Mary Jane Anderson-Wiley, Paulette Schenck and Richard Deaner demanded student Jen Keeton, 24, go through a “remediation” program after she asserted homosexuality is a behavioral choice, not a “state of being” as a professor said, according to the complaint. Also named as defendants in the case that developed in May and June are other administrators and the university system’s board of regents.
The remediation program was to include “sensitivity training” on homosexual issues, additional outside study on literature promoting homosexuality and the plan that she attend a “gay pride parade” and report on it. The lawsuit, filed by attorneys working with the Alliance Defense Fund, asserted the school cannot violate the Constitution by demanding that a person’s beliefs be changed. “ASU faculty have promised to expel Miss Keeton from the graduate Counselor Education program, not because of poor academic showing or demonstrated deficiencies in clinical performance, but simply because she has communicated both inside and outside the classroom that she holds to Christian ethical convictions on matters of human sexuality and gender identity,” the law firm explained.
School spokeswoman Kathy Schose today declined to address the allegations in the case but agreed to discuss the counselor teaching program in general. She cited the American Counseling Association’s code of ethics and said students would be required to adopt its provisions. “There is a code of ethics that govern counselors,” she said. “They have to abide by the code of the profession.”
Ethics codes generally govern behavior, and Schose denied the school was attempting to alter any student’s beliefs or moral values. But the lawsuit specifically charges the faculty members targeted Keeton’s biblically based belief system and values, not her behavior regarding the treatment of any clients, which had not yet happened.
“Schenck told Miss Keeton that it was unethical for her to believe that her convictions should also be shared by other persons. … Schenck explained that while Miss Keeton was free to have points of view about how she personally should conduct and define herself, she may not believe that others should adopt the standards she personally is convinced are true,” the lawsuit said.
“Anderson-Wiley confirmed that Miss Keeton will not be able to successfully complete the remediation plan and thus complete the ASU counseling program unless she commits to affirming the propriety of gay and lesbian relationships if such an opportunity arises in her future professional efforts,” it continued.
ADF Senior Counsel David French contended a public university student “shouldn’t be threatened with expulsion for being a Christian and refusing to publicly renounce her faith, but that’s exactly what’s happening here.”
“Simply put, the university is imposing thought reform,” he said. “Abandoning one’s own religious beliefs should not be a precondition at a public university for obtaining a degree. This type of leftist zero-tolerance policy is in place at far too many universities, and it must stop. Jennifer’s only crime was to have the beliefs that she does.”
Keeton’s own e-mail response to the faculty members who allegedly were pressuring her to adopt a pro-homosexual belief system defines the dispute.
“At times you said that I must alter my beliefs because they are unethical. … other times you said that I can keep my beliefs so long as they are only personal and I don’t believe that anyone else should believe like me. But that is just another way of saying that I must alter my beliefs, because my beliefs are about absolute truth. ….. in order to finish the counseling program you are requiring me to alter my objective beliefs and also to commit now that if I ever may have a client who wants me to affirm their decision to have an abortion or engage in gay, lesbian, or transgender behavior, I will do that. I can’t alter my biblical beliefs, and I will not affirm the morality of those behaviors in a counseling situation,” she wrote.
Faculty members had demanded she “attend at least three workshops … which emphasize … diversity training sensitive toward working with GLBTQ populations.” They also wanted her to “develop” her knowledge of homosexuality by reading 10 articles and increasing her exposure to homosexuals and lesbians by attending “the Gay Pride Parade.”
It seems to me the issue of God and homosexuality is at odds for one reason. Some believe that homosexuality is something one is born into. While others believe it is a sin that one decides to act upon. (((( Both parties are correct! ))))
I believe that God created the very first couple “without” chromosome deficiency disorders. As time went on internal mutations took place and in essence things went haywire. Born out of this situation came not only disease, mutations, etc., but…sexual
rewiring. Hence, the reality of sin is not that one is homosexual, rather that original sin created homosexuality. Today, a person with such inclination acts upon what is natural to their being, and such defends what they cannot help. This is no more sinful than an 18 year old male with God given raging hormones masturbating. The thing that God asks of ALL humans is this…Give Me the opportunity to insert my Spirit into your life and I will help you change, control, desire a new spirit. If anyone can allow Him in….they become new! Stopping the hatred, the “homing in on homosexuals” is the issue, because they are no worse than 40 males still checking out 25 year old girls. It’s natural. God given…for “it is not good that man should be alone”, hence Eve was created. God gets it! It’s time Christians “get it”. All sin and fall short of the glory of God. That means you & me.
These administrators are correct in one thing…hating the individual is hypocritical and must be stopped. They can NEVER understand Gods view for they are without God. But Christian’s are not with Him. They too must begin to educate themselves on chromosomal damage from sin, that homosexuality is no different than any other mutation from sin.
And those eventually born with such inclinations are acting naturally upon a damaged set of of DNA sequencing. They are no more sinful than a women acting out upon her period, or a man who needs to watch sports because of the aggressive nature of our male genetics.
The bottom line is homosexuality is something one is born into. It’s part of the plan. For the Lord says in… Isaiah 45:7 (King James Version):
” I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.”
God allowed His pristine couple to eventually fall apart by their own desire to be free from His control (of all things). This meant in almost a Deist view, once Adam & Eve moved on from the garden the universe began entropy. That was Gods desire to eventually show mankind how things would go without His actual presence in our lives, our world, our universe.
Homosexuals, Playboys, women “acting badly” from their cycle, genetic mutations, criminal acts, you name it….everyone has the same issue at the heart of the matter. chromosome deficiency disorders that are now part of The Natural World.
My point: Both parties are correct and don’t understand it. If the science department would catch up with the religious studies department, we could end this devilish scheme of divide and conquer and all get along much, much, better. The problem is the secularist don’t want to recognize God, so all else is going to fail. It really all about facing the fact that the universe did not come to being ex nihilo. The big bang vs. The originator of the bang.
That is a personal decision I cannot change in anyone.
Gary Davis,
You sound like you have a nice conciliatory attitude, but your theological sounding anthropology is not biblical at all. You are not correct at all in your hermeneutical principles, and, therefore, your assertions. What you’ve done is simple wet a finger, put it in the air, and found the zeitgeist and created a Hegelian concoction of metaphysics and ethics, and baptized it with convenient dips into Scripture.
God speaks clearly about His miraculous creation of man and the cosmos, the fall of man and his ethical condition, and the remedy for sin. In Romans 1:18-27, God confirms His position on the nature of homosexual behaviour and unequivocably confirms it to be man’s utter wickedness brought to it’s fullest expression.
I’m sorry, but if you’re going to delve into Scripture and then start developing ethical assertions, you need to at least obey some of the basic principles in hermeneutics.
Dear RRC
You state, “You sound like you have a nice conciliatory attitude.”
Yes, RCC. I prefer how God views things. As He is conciliatory of both good & evil.
The Lord states, ” I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.” 45:7 (King James Version): God amazes us how He is able to Be Perfect, yet reconcile two opposing forces of His own design. He reconciles these “creations” because they are part of ONE… Perfect Plan.
You state, “but your theological sounding anthropology is not biblical at all.”
My anthropology seems correct.
God created Adam, and then Eve. God said, “it is not good that man should be alone”. God created the very first couple “without” chromosome deficiency disorders. Because of Original Sin they were removed from the garden. (As stated), “Once Adam & Eve moved on from the garden the universe began entropy” Part of entropy of the entire Creation was homosexuality…( “original sin created homosexuality”). God allowed His pristine couple to eventually fall apart by their own desire to be free from His control. (All part of His perfect plan of redemption). No, my anthropology is quite Biblical!
You state RCC, “God speaks clearly about His miraculous creation of man and the cosmos, the fall of man and his ethical condition, and the remedy for sin.
No argument there, RCC.
It’s really all about facing the fact that the universe did not come to being ex nihilo.
God said, “Let there be light! ” – “The originator of the big bang”.
And as for a remedy for sin?
“The thing that God asks of ALL humans is this…Give Me the opportunity to insert my Spirit into your life and I will help you change, (help you control your sin) ,….. and help you
“desire a new spirit”. RCC, I do believe I was very clear on Gods remedy!
And I believe quite Biblical.
You state, RCC…
What you’ve done is simple wet a finger, put it in the air, and found the zeitgeist and created a Hegelian concoction of metaphysics and ethics, and baptized it with convenient dips into Scripture.
Not a chance, but nice try.
So what have I said in a nutshell?
“Homosexuals, playboys, women “acting badly” from their cycle, genetic mutations, criminal acts, you name it….everyone has the same issue at the heart of the matter. chromosome deficiency disorders that are now part of The Natural World.
God is Spirit, he is not nature. He is beyond time & space! Hence He is beyond the manifestation of the material universe. Our “natural world” is a fallen world. That is part of the entropy of the universe, of the earth, of man’s nature–> without God. Which was caused by original sin – which God knew would happen before the foundations of the world.
When God said to Adam & Eve “you shall surely die” they lived another 900 years. What did die was their spirit, and furthermore their molecular structure changed. That is why they physically died. “Chromosome deficiency disorders.”
No my friend, I’m quite studied on our Bible, but I also understand a bit about science.
Certainly my post was concise considering the enormity of the subject, but I wasn’t trying to write a thesis, just “reconcile” a war that needs to end.
Homosexuality IS sin, of that I have no debate with our Maker. But to understand the nature of that particular sin… help take the plank out of our own eye. Our own “utter wickedness”.
As I mentioned…
“Homosexuals, playboys, women “acting badly” from their cycle, genetic mutations, criminal acts, you name it….everyone has the same issue at the heart of the matter.
Today, a person with such inclination acts upon what is natural to their being, and such defends what they cannot help.”
Why? Original Sin.
Last: Please also let me insert something I didn’t mention. The Tree, …The Tree of Good & Evil. It was NOT two trees you might note. God was in the Garden making it quite clear
Adam & Eve were not to eat of that ONE tree. That reconciliation –> He put in the garden.
God bless,
Respectfully…I probably won’t respond further as it’s far to time consuming. I did my debating long ago and prefer peace. If you don’t agree with my view, peace be unto you.
Gary Davis
I do believe perhaps a clarification need me finalized with.
The issue on God and homosexuality has two views. ” Some believe that homosexuality is something one is born into. While others believe it is a sin that one decides to act upon.
I believe both parties are correct. ”
#1. It is a decision people make and act upon.
#2. It originally happened because of chromosome entropy from man’s original sin.
#3. Cultural anomalies such as poor upbringings, abusive homes, traditions, rape, etc. are f also factors in homosexuality’s history. Not only chromosome deficiency (which basically rewired sexual preferences) on a molecular level. We can be culturally BORN in this lifestyle.
As can a criminal, a playboy, etc.
#4. Without God in our lives we will continue to act upon what nature has left us with, sin.
Our original parents left a perfect world to start cultures & live out a physical life deficient in God. Both emotionally & physical deficient…………… till redeemed by God’s Holy Spirit.
It will be that Spirit that remains at our death, otherwise we die IN our sins forever.
Gary Davis,
Your egregious handling of exegetical processes is so bad, that I believe you are going to be in serious trouble come Judgement Day. Why? Because you sound able enough to lead many people struggling with homosexual and other sexual sin to avoid repenting. Matthew 18:6 says, “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.”
God never has “two views” of anything, especially ethically. Your erroneous premise is that this question is somehow obscure, and that Gary Davis can now, arrogantly, clear the contradiction up for us after 2000 years of theological reflection and exegetical work. Scripture, however, is exclusively and only about God’s thoughts, and it is written out for man,understood only by the aid of God’s Spirit. And God, by definition, does not and cannot contradict Himself.
Aside from all your personally generated erroneous commentary, I noticed you avoided dealing with the main text I cited: Romans 1:18-32, God’s actual view of homosexuality – not Gary Davis’ “view” of homosexuality.
There’s a lot at stake Gary. You don’t get to make theological sounding garbage up an expect to get a free pass on Judgement Day (described in the Book of Revelations). Now is the time to wake up.
Gary Davis
You said, “It seems to me the issue of God and homosexuality is at odds for one reason. Some believe that homosexuality is something one is born into. While others believe it is a sin that one decides to act upon. (((( Both parties are correct! ))))” Maybe you would like to offer some proof for your “Both parties are correct,” statement? You make a claim that homosexuals are born that way but offer no proof. Because I was curious about this question, some years ago, I checked out what an expert on genes had to say. Matt Ridley, author of Genome and The Agile Gene, claims homosexuality is a learned behaviour and not genetic. It seems clear by reading his book that he is not a believer so a bias can’t be claimed on religious views.
In any case, it makes no sense that genes are responsible for homosexuality, since genes are replicated by procreation and persons who have no interest in sex with the opposite sex would have a problem reproducing their genes, therefore the homosexual genes would have been removed from the gene pool millions of years ago, if you hold to evolution, that is. Short of some quirk of nature there would be no homosexuals if genes were to blame. If you have some evidence or expert opinion, to the contrary, maybe you could share it.
It is also interesting that you used my favorite translation the KJV to try and prove your point. The point you tried to make is the same point that those who hate Christianity try to make and they too like the KJV, because the meaning of words has changed since this wonderful translation was given to us. When persons use today’s word’s meanings in yesteryear’s verbiage it produces misinformed opinions.
The Isaiah 54:7 verse in KJV, “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.” The reason those who hate Christianity like this verse is obvious when you argue God created evil. God did not create evil! Evil is what you have when the goodness of God is taken away. Other newer translations translate “evil” in this passage as “disaster” NIV, or “calamity” NASV & NKJV. Looking at these other translations and in keeping consistency in interpreting what we read in God’s word, obviously since God is not a liar, He did not create “evil.”
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, in that whomsoever believes in Him should not perish but have ever lasting life. This promise and others like it are not just for us who know our Lord and Saviour, but for “whomsoever.”
Gary, I think RRC was very gracious in his opinion of you. I think you have no idea of what it is you believe and therefore accept the nonsense of the lying left media, which makes you sway like a willow in the wind.
It’s quite obvious RCC simply cannot follow the bouncing ball….
As stated,
“Homosexuality IS sin, of that I have no debate with our Maker. But to understand the nature of that particular sin… helps take the plank out of our own eye. Our own “utter wickedness”.
And my “added” comments below that post:
“#3. Cultural anomalies such as poor upbringings, abusive homes, traditions, rape, etc. are also factors in homosexuality’s history. Not only chromosome deficiency (which basically rewired sexual preferences) on a molecular level. We can be culturally BORN in this lifestyle.
As can a criminal, a playboy, etc.
Nuff said.
Appreciate your comments Ian….
You state…
“You make a claim that homosexuals are born that way but offer no proof.”
“Short of some quirk of nature there would be no homosexuals if genes were to blame.”
Homosexuality IS a quirk of nature Ian, with a manifestation of perhaps 2 % (+/-).
But as I stated in my post… there are other factors
“#3. Cultural anomalies such as poor upbringings, abusive homes, traditions, rape, etc. are also factors in homosexuality’s history. Not only chromosome deficiency (which basically rewired sexual preferences) on a molecular level. We can be culturally BORN in this lifestyle.
As can a criminal, a playboy, etc.
You state…
“Evil is what you have when the goodness of God is taken away.”
As I stated.. “God allowed His pristine couple to eventually fall apart by their own desire to be free from His control of all things. ….(God -> took away His Spirit from them & sin entered)
I used the word “allowed” because had HE decided to simply vaporize His creation and start all over upon the ENTRANCE of original sin – evil would never had manifested further. God IS in control whether you want to believe it or not. Also, Ian… Allowing something does not always mean “to participate”. God is in control of our universe, and that fact does mean God is carrying out a perfect plan and “allowing evil” for a purpose. That purpose is to produce a family of believers for His heavenly kingdom that willingly trusted Him on earth.
My apology for any lack of clarity in the post on that particular point.
You state,
“God did not create evil! Evil is what you have when the goodness of God is taken away”.
As stated both above and in former posts…
“#4. Without God in our lives we will continue to act upon what nature has left us with, sin.
“That was Gods desire to eventually show mankind how things would go without His actual presence in our lives, our world, our universe.”
You state,
“I think you have no idea of what it is you believe”.
Ian, I do know what I believe.
A final comment to you,
Do YOU believe sin is evil?
Yet you still sin…
As stated…
Homosexuals, Playboys, women “acting badly” from their cycle, genetic mutations, criminal acts, you name it….everyone has the same issue’s at the heart of the matter. chromosome deficiency disorders & cultural upbringing…. that are now part of the Natural World.
Or in other words – Original Sin is the culprit. I’ve never strayed from that as the culprit for the creation the various evils in our world. My last statement on my first post.
Both parties are correct and don’t understand it. If the science department would catch up with the religious studies department, we could end this devilish scheme of divide and conquer and all get along much, much, better.
((( The problem is the secularist don’t want to recognize God))), so all else is going to fail.
That is a personal decision I cannot change in anyone.
Ian, that includes the left wing media!
Discussion Rules:
#1 Slowly read the various views.
#2. Take everything in CONTEXT.
Gary Davis,
You fail to answer God’s “bouncing ball” (to use your metaphor) in Romans 1:18-32 – I’ll use capitals like you have for emphasis. ALL SIN, INCLUDING SEXUAL SIN, IS CULPABLE SIN.
CULPABLE – That means “deserving blame” in Merriam-Webster Dictionary 2004. Law-breakers are ON THE HOOK for judgement. Therefore, sinners, like homosexuals and other violators of the Law of God, MUST REPENT, NOW. And not have Gary Davis feed them hermeneutical snake oil.
Here is a philosophically absurd statement:“If the science department would catch up with the religious studies department, we could end this….” You simply do not understand that fundamental worldview presuppositions are in conflict here. Only one of these sets of presuppositions can actually provide the required intelligible pre-conditions for science and religion and the other can not – biblical presuppositions or autonomous man’s presuppositions WITHOUT God as his starting point (i.e. the secularist “scientist”). There is no neutrality in the stark antithesis, as you just assume.